MINUTES
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 6, 2012
TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE NO.
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
Announcements/Comments Page 2
Under New Business
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Request to Approve Minor Changes
to Recorded Development Plan for
Huck's Convenience Store Located
at 3500 Patterson Road in an Existing
B-5 Zoning District Page 2-4
Request to Review and Make
Recommendations to Clarify
And/or Amend the List of Permitted
Uses in the HB District Page 4-14
Upcoming Meetings Page 14-15
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
The Planning and Zoning Commission for the City of Florissant met at the Florissant City Hall Council Chambers on Monday, February 6, 2012 at 7:00 p.m., with Jane Boyle presiding.
On roll call the following members were present: Jane Boyle, Jim Hessel, Daniel Call, Steve Olds, Paul Stock and Lee Baranowski. Also present was Julia Bennett, Court Reporter and Phil Lum, Building Commissioner.
A quorum being present the Chair declared the Planning and Zoning Commission was in session for the transaction of business.
ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMENTS
Commissioner Boyle welcomed Steve Olds to the Commission and announced that Dick Weller had been excused from tonight’s meeting.
Commissioner Boyle stated that the next order of business would be approval of the minutes for the January 17, 2012 meeting. Hearing no amendments Paul Stock made a motion to approve the minutes as written. Seconded by Jim Hessel, all parties concur and the motion carried.
Commissioner Boyle requested that Item 2 under Miscellaneous Business be changed to Item 1 in order to accommodate the representative for Huck's Convenience Store. Item 3 is removed from the agenda. All parties concur.
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Item 1 Request to Approve Minor Changes to Recorded PZ011712-4 Development Plan for Huck's Convenience Store Located at 3500 Patterson Road in an Existing B-5 Zoning District
Brian Labow (phonetic), of Earl Construction Company appeared before the Commission and stated that Huck’s would like to replace the awnings on this building.
The current yellow awnings are showing signs of decay and need to be replaced with the same type of fascia system used on their newer buildings. The gas canopy will remain as is and no other changes will be made to the exterior of the building.
Lee Baranowski asked Mr. Labow if the checkerboard banner would be also installed? Mr. Labow stated that it would be.
Daniel Call asked if anything would be mounted to the building? Mr. Labow stated that the new awnings would be mounted to the building and project out about 4 inches.
Paul Stock asked if anchors would be used to mount the awnings? Mr. Labow stated that an aluminum channel would be mounted to the building. The fascia system then slips inside the angles and is attached with self-tapping screws. Mr. Stock asked if any changes would be made to the lighting? Mr. Labow stated that there would be no changes. Mr. Stock asked how long it would take to replace the awnings? Mr. Labow stated that it would take approximately four days.
Jane Boyle asked if the work would commence once the permits were issued? Mr. Labow stated that the goal is to complete the project as soon as possible.
Phil Lum informed the Commission that their previous packet points out that staff had deemed this as a minor change to the B-5, which was conditionally approved per Section 405.135. The Petitioner has chosen to come before Planning and Zoning for ratification of this approval.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Jane Boyle made a motion to approve the amendment of the site development plans of the B-5, ratifying the conditional approval to allow the replacement of the building canopy according to plans prepared by Stout Imagining dated 6/4/02, depicting the additional development, subject to submission of engineering calculations for the new canopy, the regulations of the B-5 Planned Commercial District and the following additional requirements: (1) Unless and except to the extent otherwise specifically provided in Ordinance 5350 or this Ordinance, development shall be effective only in accordance with all ordinances of the City of Florissant. (2) Construction shall start within 90 days of the issuance of Building Permits for the project and shall be developed in accordance with the approved Final Development Plan within 180 days of start of construction.
Seconded by Paul Stock and on roll call the Commission voted: Boyle yes, Stock yes, Hessel yes, Call yes, Olds yes, Baranowski yes. Motion Carries.
Item 2 Request to Review and Make Recommendations PZ011712-3 to Clarify And/or Amend the List of Permitted Uses in the HB District
John Hessel, City Attorney, appeared before the Commission and stated that he has struggled with the permitted use category within the HB District for almost thirty years.
In 1988 the City had zoning categories that identified all the permitted and special uses, as well as a category under special use that allowed anything you could think of. Under the law permitted uses are established to allow businesses that fall within those categories to operate within the specified zoning district. Businesses outside of those categories may be considered under a special use. The courts interpret this as a business that can only operate within a specific zoning district if it is determined by the City’s legislative body to not adversely affect the character of the neighborhood, increase traffic conditions, et cetera. Based on that understanding Mr. Hessel informed City Council that if they were going to include this open-ended category then the list of permitted and special uses could be eliminated.
Lists that define uses are dynamic. Things that are happening today were not happening twenty years ago. So that requires cities to make periodic reviews to determine if there is a need to eliminate outdated material or add something new.
Mr. Hessel stated that the problem the City has always had with the permitted use category in the HB District is a result of the following language:
“A service facility providing for the needs of the community or wider areas, including banks, barber shops, beauty shops, photographer, shoe repair, tailor, tourist information center, printing shop, blueprinting, custom made products, dance and craft schools and similar activities".
He stated that perhaps the inclusion of “similar
activities,” was to give Building Commissioners a broader
discretion in determining what can or cannot operate
within a district. But the truth of the matter is that
he has no idea what “similar activities” means. And as a result, he advises all Building Commissioners and Public Works Directors that they do not want this discretion because it is the easiest way to get sued. When there is a legislative body in place they are the entity that should tell them what goes in and what does not. And if it is not on the list, then it should not be allowed.
Over the years the City of Florissant has allowed businesses to come in even though there is no explanation as to why. And now it is happening again with KB Electric and its expansion. The impact of such language within the Zoning Code is that it is not only subject to interpretation by the Building Commissioner, it is also subject to interpretation by his boss, the Mayor. And now you get into politics, which is the last thing you need when you’re dealing with zoning code issues.
Mr. Hessel stated that while his advice is from a legal standpoint, in his opinion this provision should be eliminated. But the determination to do so is left up to this Commission and City Council.
The list of permitted uses has been reorganized. And one reason why they felt there was a need to do this is because there are some things currently in the HB District that should not be made a legal non-conforming use.
John Hessel asked Mr. Lum why antiques had been added to the reorganized list? Mr. Lum stated that he had taken all of the addresses and business names in the HB District to review what businesses have been allowed. In the last ten years there have been five different kinds of contractors in Old Towne, some still active, some not. In the case of antiques he explained that the bold words on the revision dated 2/6/12, represented existing businesses in the HB District. The shaded words represent existing businesses in the HB District that are not listed as a permitted use anywhere else in the zoning.
Daniel Call asked Mr. Lum if he was saying that he did not find these businesses anywhere else in the HB zoning code or in any other district? Mr. Lum stated that he had only checked HB and B-3. And what he found was that the businesses were not listed in B-3 as a permitted use, although they might have come in under a special use.
John Hessel stated that his understanding of the map is that the businesses in bold are in the B-3, but they are not specifically listed under the HB District as it is exists today. The shaded businesses are not in B-3, not in HB, but they exist within the City because the criteria is broad and vague.
John Hessel questioned whether antique stores should be treated separately; be categorized under retail sales, or whether any retail sales operation should be eliminated and only specific kinds of sales operations should be listed?
Daniel Call stated that in his opinion retail sales is subjective. John Hessel agreed, noting that such a category could result in creating broader discretion for the Building Commissioner, although there are definitions that can be found on what constitutes retail sales. But there is no definition for a service facility.
Mr. Hessel stated that the hope is that this body collectively can come up with the right terminology, using as many words as necessary, to either limit or expand what currently exists. He cautioned however that expanding the list may put them back in the same position they find themselves in today.
Orignal list of permitted uses:
(1) Any retail sales operation conducted wholly within a building or enclosed structure. Additional filling stations and other "drive-in"-type facilities are prohibited. New or used car lots are prohibited within the entire district.
(2) Bed and breakfast.
(3) Business and professional offices and office buildings.
(4) Churches, synagogues or other places of worship.
(5) Hotel and motel.
(6) Medical clinics and pharmacies.
(7) Parking lots and structures, when serving any of the permitted uses.
(8) Parks, playgrounds and community buildings owned and operated by public agencies.
(9) Public or parochial schools and private schools having a similar curriculum.
(10) Residential uses, including:
(a) Single-family residential structures.
(b) Multi-family structures.
(c) Attached single-family dwellings or town houses.
(d) Mixed residential-commercial developments provided that the commercial uses shall be restricted to the permitted uses in this district; provided that any residential uses shall comply with the standards and requirements established for the like residential use within the "HR", "HD" or "HMD" Districts, unless less restrictive provisions or requirements are otherwise established in this Subsection. Said standards shall also include the regulations governing the exterior design of the buildings under Section 405.250.
(11) Restaurant, coffee shop, tavern or bar. Drive- through restaurants are specifically prohibited.
(12) Service facility providing for the needs of the community or wider areas, including bank, barbershop, beauty shop, photographer, shoe repair, tailor, tourist information center, printing shop, blueprinting, custom-made products, dance and craft schools and similar activities.
(13) Theater, auditorium and auction hall. (Drive-in theaters are specifically prohibited.)
(14) Temporary structures subject to the terms and conditions as set out in Section 405.235.
(15) Upon application and approval by the Mayor or City Council, a permit authorizing outdoor sales may be issued for a designated period of time, provided that the outdoor sales being conducted on the property is consistent with the intent and purpose of the Historic District and the Historic District regulations.
[The proposed reorganized list consists of
Numbers 1 through 44]
Bakeries exist in the HB District, but are not among the permitted uses. (May have been allowed under service facilities provision)
Building preservation/restoration exists in the HB District, but is not a permitted use.
Phil Lum stated that there are a number of businesses related to preservation; automobile upholstery and several that pertain to the Historic District, such as items to be used on a historic building. He then questioned whether these should be incorporated into one category?
Daniel Call stated that you could probably classify someone in that line of business as a contractor. Jane Boyle asked Mr. Lum if a building preservation/restoration business was currently in the code? Mr. Lum stated that he had been unable to find that specific category. John Hessel stated that this might be another instance where they came in under the service facility criteria.
Ms. Boyle then asked for an explanation of a service facility?
John Hessel stated that if someone asked him for the meaning of building preservation/restoration his answer would be that he has no earthly idea.
Jane Boyle stated that in her opinion building preservation is too broad of a term to be included within the reorganized list.
Painting contractor currently exists in the HB District. (Should this be listed separately; placed in a category with all the other building construction businesses; fall under a special use or be eliminated completely?)
Daniel Call suggested that “including, but not limited to,” be added to the contractor category, to hopefully avoid problems associated with listing individual businesses separately.
John Hessel explained that “including, but not limited to,” means that these are all the ones we can think of, but everybody else that calls themselves a contractor can come in. He then noted that the reorganized list also included specific contractors with equipment storage.
Cleaners exist in the HB District, but are typically not among the permitted uses. (May have been allowed under the service facilities provision)
Jane Boyle stated that she did not want to use the term dry cleaner plant in the HB District.
Churches, synagogues or other places of worship, has been eliminated on the reorganized list. (As a matter of law you cannot keep these entities out of any zoning district.)
Hotels and motels. Currently none exists in the HB District and therefore could be eliminated from the reorganized list.
Paul Stock agreed with the suggestion to eliminate hotels and motels.
Daniel Call asked Mr. Lum why he had put “special use or collectibles” behind coin shop? Mr. Lum stated that the question he is asking is whether it should be a special use or the title changed to collectibles? Mr. Call said that he would be inclined to go with collectibles, although he was curious about the terminology used in other cities. Mr. Hessel stated that he had not seen collectibles, but had seen coin shops.
Jane Boyle stated that her preference would be to use coin shop, since pawn shops could also claim to fall under collectibles.
Phil Lum asked the Commission to consider whether any of the shaded items should be eliminated from the list. (Doing so would render existing businesses as a legal non-conforming use.)
Jane Boyle asked why the language “Additional filling stations and other "drive-in" type facilities are prohibited,” had been included in the original list? John Hessel stated that he had also questioned why there was a need to point out that certain things are prohibited when there is a list of uses. He suggested that the language be eliminated from the reorganized list because it is confusing.
Drive-in theaters should also be eliminated.
Paul Stock asked how Number 23, (massage therapists), should be filtered down to medical issues? John Hessel stated that the licensing requirements for this type of business consists of seven pages which emphasizes that is should be for relaxation or medical purposes.
Jane Boyle questioned why “office” was in bold under Number 24 on the reorganized list? John Hessel stated that it says “medical, clinics and pharmacies,” but no medical offices.
Ms. Boyle asked why there was a question mark after mortuary? Mr. Lum stated that mortuaries are a permitted use in B-3, but not in HB. So the Commission can either make it a permitted or special use.
Daniel Call stated that the existing mortuary would then become a legal non-conforming use.
Phil Lum advised the Commission that a legal non-conforming use could not be expanded.
John Hessel stated that although he understands why jewelry store is on the list, he is having trouble understanding why it is listed separately rather than identified as a retail sales operation. Mr. Lum stated that this was another determination that has to be made by the Commission and therefore did not want to take off without permission.
Paul Stock suggested that the revised list emphasize the fact that everything must stay within the enclosed structure by placing it in bold.
Jane Boyle asked if Number 27, (ornamental iron), was still in operation? Mr. Lum stated that it was located next to the motorcycle shop. John Hessel stated that this may be a business that you want to identify as a special use rather than a permitted use. You really ought to question where the next iron company that wants to come in should go.
Jane Boyle stated that she did not see the motorcycle shop on the list. Mr. Lum acknowledged that he might nave missed one or two.
Daniel Call questioned whether the motorcycle shop would be covered under retail sales? John Hessel stated that if he had to walk into court on the other side his argument would be that it falls within the category of a retail sales operation and the other side would have to prove that it is not.
Lee Baranowski suggested that all retail operations require a special use permit. He then advised Mr. Lum that there was a computer shop around the corner from the automobile upholstery business.
Jane Boyle stated that while there is a sign in the window of Sandy’s Blinds, it belongs to a friend. No computer repair work is done at that location. Mr. Lum stated that if there are two businesses at one address the City must determine which one is the predominant business based on gross sales. He stated that when he gets a business that is very creative he follows the City Attorney’s suggestion and makes them write him a letter fully describing their business.
Jane Boyle asked how bars would be classified? Mr. Lum stated that when the code was changed bars became a special use in the HB District.
John Hessel added that a restaurant, even though it may serve alcohol, is a permitted use in the HB District and a special use in other districts. Ms. Boyle suggested that the classifications be consistent and that HB be changed to require a special use. She then questioned whether coffee shops should be treated the same? Mr. Hessel stated that his belief is that they are also classified as a special use.
Auditorium and auction hall; John Hessel asked the Commission whether this should remain as a permitted use in the HB District?
Lee Baranowski stated that the first course of action by this Commission should be to determine what a Historic District is. Then you can begin to look at what types of businesses fit within that definition. All other businesses would then require a special use permit.
John Hessel stated that such an action would create some headaches that the City would have to work through. If existing permitted uses are reclassified as a special use, new owners would have to come before Planning and Zoning, and Council, for approval. However, he would advise both legislative bodies that although you now have the ability to regulate the business; as long as it’s reasonable, their petition cannot be denied. So while you can follow Commissioner Baranowski’s suggestion, it will make selling these businesses even harder.
Mr. Hessel stated that if a specific category is eliminated entirely then the business would be sold as a legal non-conforming use. Approval would be required by the new owners, but the caveat is that nothing could be changed. The new owners must be willing to operate the business exactly as it exists at the time of purchase.
Jane Boyle asked for an explanation of Number 42, temporary structures? Mr. Lum stated that temporary structures are like a tent or greenhouse. These structures require a permit which is generally limited to a six month period. Temporary structures for schools are special in that the permit can be extended beyond six months.
Ms. Boyle stated although she believes the Commission needs more time before making a final decision, this has been a very helpful meeting.
Jim Hessel asked if there was a timeline for completing this project? John Hessel stated that there is no pressure on us to do it now. Although if word gets out that the City is looking to amend or eliminate service facilities from the code you might see an increase in the number of requests for occupancy permits by businesses who fall within this category.
John Hessel stated that while he understands that this is a huge task, it is something that desperately needs to be done. He encouraged the Commission to take their time, understanding that there won’t be any absolute right or wrong answers, and that some things will probably be missed. But unless you engage in an active review every five years this is something that all cities must go through.
Mr. Hessel stated that while he is suggesting that there is a need to amend what currently exists today, how far the Commission wants to take it and where they want to take it is up to them.
Commissioners were asked to advise the City Attorney or Mr. Lum of anything they’ve missed or any ideas that would assist them in improving this project.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Paul Stock made a motion to continue this item to the next meeting. Seconded by Jim Hessel and all parties concur. Motion Carries.
Item 3 Upcoming Meetings
The next Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting will be held on Tuesday, February 21, 2012.
The next City Council Representative for the meeting held on February 13, 2012, will be Jim Hessel.
Jane Boyle advised Mr. Lum of the need to revise the City Council schedule to include the Commission’s newest member. She stated that it would also be helpful to have a list of the members’ names and phone numbers. Mr. Lum stated that he had just received the current list and would forward the email to everyone.
Paul Stock stated that it would beneficial to him if the list included each member’s area of expertise.
Commissioner Expertise
Jane Boyle Landscaping
Paul Stock Structure & Certified Welding Instructor
Jim Hessel Environmental
Daniel Call Civil Engineer
Steve Olds Systems Integration, Low voltage Electronics, Fire Alarm & Certain Code Issues
Lee Baranowski Engineer, Aero-Thermal Dynamics & infrared Technology
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments the meeting was adjourned at 8:23 p.m.
