MINUTES
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
APRIL 2, 2012
TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE NO.
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
Announcements/Comments Page 2
Under Old Business
2950 Derhake
After Nites Page 2
Under New Business
504(504-512) North New Florissant Road
Plaza De Catherine Shopping Center Page 3-5
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Request to Review and Make
Recommendations to Clarify
And/or Amend the List of Permitted Page 5-8
Uses in the HB District
Donation Boxes Page 8-9
Wright Tree Trimming Company Page 9
Collision Center Fence Page 9-10
The Detail Shop Page 10
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
The Planning and Zoning Commission for the City of Florissant met at the Florissant City Hall Council Chambers on Monday, April 2, 2012 at 7:00 p.m., with Jane Boyle presiding.
On roll call the following members were present: Jane Boyle, Paul Stock, Jim Hessel, Daniel Call, Dick Weller and Lee Baranowski. Also present was Julia Bennett, Court Reporter and Phil Lum, Building Commissioner.
A quorum being present the Chair declared the Planning and Zoning Commission was in session for the transaction of business.
ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMENTS
Commissioner Boyle stated that the next order of business would be approval of the minutes for the March 19, 2012 meeting. Hearing no amendments Jane Boyle stated that the minutes would be approved as written.
OLD BUSINESS
Item 1 2950 Derhake
PZ-030512-3 After Nites
CONTINUED - Ward 8
Request Recommended Approval of a
Special Use Permit to Allow for a
Night Club Establishment in a B-3
Zoning District.
The Chair stated Item Number One on the Agenda, After Nites, located at 2950 Derhake; request recommended approval of a Special Use Permit to allow for a night club establishment in a B-3 Zoning District.
Phil Lum stated that the Petitioner had not submitted revised drawings and therefore he would recommend that the Petition be continued to May 7, 2010.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Jane Boyle made a motion to continue the Petition to May 7, 2011. Seconded by Paul Stock. All parties concur and the motion carried.
NEW BUSINESS
Item 2 504-512 North New Florissant Road
PZ-040212-2 Plaza De Catherine Shopping Center
RECOMMENDED APPROVAL - Ward 6
Request Recommended Approval of a
Special Use Permit to Replace Shopping
Center Sign With a Digital Display in
a B-2 Zoning District.
The Chair stated Item Number Two on the Agenda, Plaza De Catherine Shopping Center located at 504-512 North New Florissant Road; request recommended approval of a Special Use Permit to replace shopping center sign with a digital display in a B-2 Zoning District.
Dr. J. Richard Landgraf appeared before the Commission and stated that the sign has been in existence for 41 year and needs to be updated. He stated that he is requesting to replace the face of the sign with an LED panel.
Jane Boyle asked Mr. Lum if the current sign is 14 feet high and the proposed sign is 15 1/2 feet high? Mr. Lum stated that per the drawings the new sign appears to be slightly larger than the existing sign.
Lee Baranowski asked Mr. Lum if this property was located in the Historic Business District? Mr. Lum stated that it is just outside of the HB District.
Mr. Baranowski asked the Petitioner if the digital display would scroll? Dr. Landgraf stated that it could change every 10 seconds or so, but he does not think that it will.
John Hillman (phonetic), of Ad Media Signs appeared before the Commission and stated that what slows drivers down is a sign that is not readable. He stated that this would be a high resolution sign that dims automatically at night. Mr. Hillman stated that he also works with the customer once the sign is installed to ensure optimal performance.
Dick Weller asked Mr. Hillman if the new base would have two concrete pillars? Mr. Hillman stated that rather than demolish the old base the new post would be located between the two existing posts, built out at the base and filled in with rebar and concrete so that it becomes one base. Mr. Weller asked how the wiring would be installed? Mr. Hillman stated that there would be an overhead drop from the imminent power lines which will run down to the sign. Mr. Weller asked if the lines would be on the blue base? Mr. Hillman stated that it would be on the surface however Ameren will make the final decision.
Phil Lum stated that a recent review by City staff revealed that the average time for digital signs within the City of Florissant is less than 10 seconds.
Dick Weller asked Mr. Lum if the City had any Ordinances to enforce the 10 second rule? Mr. Lum stated that the only means of regulating the 10 second rule is through restrictions placed on signs that require a Special Use Permit. He stated that 10 seconds seems to be a good suggestion for the new Sign Ordinance whenever it is adopted.
Mr. Weller asked Mr. Hillman how the brightness would be controlled? Mr. Hillman stated that it is controlled by the software, which has an automatic dimming for nighttime viewing.
Jane Boyle stated that some of their concerns with the sign's brightness is based on the fact that there is a residential neighborhood located to the south of the property.
Daniel Call asked Mr. Lum if this sign fell within the basic dimensions of the signs reviewed by City staff or within Code? Mr. Lum stated that the height of the sign is controlled by the definition of a ground sign which has a limit of 25 feet and no width restriction. However if it is closer than 40 feet to the front setback a Special Use Permit is required.
Mr. Call asked the Petitioner if they had seen the stipulations addressed by City staff? Dr. Landgraf stated that they would meet all of the qualifications.
Jim Hessel asked the Petitioner who would have access to the software? Mr. Hillman stated that only the dental office would have access.
Paul Stock asked the Petitioner if the sign would be acrylic and back-lit? Mr. Hillman stated that it would be. Mr. Stock asked if there would be one pipe located in the center of the sign? Mr. Hillman stated that that was correct. Mr. Stock asked what would keep the sign from torquing? Mr. Hillman stated that it would be a welded construction. Mr. Stock asked if it would be tied onto the top of the concrete mass with an angle? Mr. Hillman stated that it would be and that he had engineered the sign at 30 pounds per square feet. He stated that if the Commission feels that it is necessary this could be upgraded to an 1/8 wall steel tubing which would address any concerns with flexing.
Mr. Stock suggested that the Commission's recommendation include the limitation of 10 second intervals.
Jane Boyle stated that it had already been included in staff's recommendations.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments to the Petitioner? Being no further questions or comments, Lee Baranowski made a motion to recommend approval of a Special Use Permit to replace shopping center sign with digital display for the property located at 504-512 North New Florissant Road; Plaza De Catherine Shopping Center, per the recommendations as listed below. Seconded by Jim Hessel. On roll call the Commission voted: Boyle yes, Call yes, Hessel yes, Stock yes, Weller yes and Baranowski yes. Motion carried.
STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS:
1. Digital sign shall conform to the City's Ordinance regarding digital sign code once adopted.
2. Digital sign shall display only static non-moving message for 10 seconds intervals minimum and shall change instantaneously to the next message without scrolling, flashing or animation.
3. Digital sign shall display no glare, flashing, scrolling or animation.
4. Digital sign shall be automatically dimmed at night.
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Item 3 Request to Review and Make
PZ-011712-3 Recommendations to Clarify and/or Amend the List of Permitted Uses in the HB District.
Phil Lum stated that the Commission should have received an amended list based on the minutes of the last meeting and a list of permitted/special uses in other cities, i.e., St. Charles, Kirkwood, Ferguson and Webster Groves. He noted that St. Charles would probably be the most similar to Florissant's HB District.
Daniel Call stated that it was his belief that dry cleaners, number 12, should be eliminated.
Phil Lum stated that his interpretation is that dry cleaners would remain and that dry cleaning plants would be prohibited.
Daniel Call made the following suggestions:
Number 17 - revised from Dance School to Dance Studio Number 22 – retail shops should be a Special Use
Number 28 - crematory should be discussed
Number 33 - pest control service should be a Special Use Number 35 - photographer should be a Special Use because of the chemicals
Dick Weller stated that he had just visited Hutchinson's and noticed that they had crematorium on their literature. Mr. Weller then questioned whether this service was performed on site? Mr. Lum stated that his belief is that it is performed at another location.
Commissioners Boyle and Stock stated that they did not want to add crematory to the HB District.
Paul Stock stated that the City should have control over any business that utilizes chemicals.
Phil Lum informed the Commission that the current photographers within HB are all digital.
Jane Boyle noted that there is a new photographer slated to open an office in the HB District.
Phil Lum suggested that a clarification be added to Number 35 which states that chemical processing is prohibited since a certain amount of chemicals are permissible under the building code. He added that it is mainly a public safety issue when chemicals are caustic or flammable, but the quantities are fairly low.
Mr. Lum cautioned the Commission about exceeding their jurisdiction by tying to restrict the use of hazardous materials for all businesses. He stated that in his opinion it would be simpler just to put the qualifier on photographers versus any type of business.
Jane Boyle stated that before she would feel comfortable going forward she would like the list corrected and presented to the Landmark Commission.
Phil Lum informed Commissioner Boyle that he would not be able to obtain any input from the Landmark Commission until May 7th.
Jane Boyle stated that there also seems to be a feeling that electronic signs would not be appropriate in the Historic District.
Phil Lum stated that there are fifteen prohibited signs in the Historic District.
1. Moving signs.
2. Signs displaying flashing or intermittent lights or lights of changing degrees of intensity.
3. Strings of lights.
4. Signs on public property other than those erected at the direction of a public authority.
5. Signs attached to a vehicle.
6. Billboards.
7. Painted signs on an exterior wall.
8. Roof signs.
9. Neon signs or internally lighted signs having translucent faces. However internally lighted signs having a routed face with translucent lettering are authorized. (i.e., New Sign at Florissant Library)
10. Plastic signs, unless it simulates natural wood.
11. Signs other than real estate signs remaining 60 days after an owner or occupant has vacated the premises to which the refers.
12. Signs erected in large or structurally altered in violation of the provisions of the Sign Ordinance.
13. Signs which become deteriorated or damaged to an extent that the cost of reconstruction or restoration is in excess of 50 percent of the replacement value, exclusive of the supports.
14. Portable signs.
15. Any other sign not expressly permitted.
Lee Baranowski asked Mr. Lum about businesses that utilize neon open/closed signs? Mr. Lum stated that if they are located inside the building then it is not considered a sign.
Jane Boyle informed Mr. Lum of the For Lease sign located across the street at the bank that has been up for five years. Mr. Lum asked if the sign was located on the outside of the building? Ms. Boyle stated that it was a billboard. Mr. Lum stated that if it has been there longer than 60 days they could be in violation.
Lee Baranowski stated that he had not heard the words LED or scrolling within the fifteen restrictions.
Daniel Call noted that the material from St. Charles included several businesses that he did not believe should be in Florissant’s Historic District; savings and loans, credit unions, data processing centers, art galleries and museums, insurance agencies, investment companies, real estate, title companies, publishing and engraving.
Paul Stock stated that most of the businesses would be covered under business and professional offices.
Phil Lum advised the Commission to review the enclosed maps to determine the differences, similarities and ultimately how they would like to see the Historic District developed in the future. He stated that one could also ask the question of whether the St. Charles Historic District is a direction that they would like to see this City go in. Mr. Lum stated that while the Comprehensive Plan indicates that the Historic District is to remain in the future, what will help it remain is up for discussion.
Daniel Call suggested that banks and medical/dental offices be eliminated since they would fall under business and professional offices. Mr. Lum stated that the minutes did indicate that they should be combined.
Dick Weller asked Mr. Lum if all of this information would be subject to approval by City Council? Mr. Lum stated that it would be a recommendation from both Commissions to Council.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Jane Boyle made a motion to continue this item until the May 7th meeting. Seconded by Daniel Call. All parties concur and the motion carried.
Item 4 Donation Boxes
Paul Stock stated that donation boxes of all different shapes and sizes are popping up everywhere and that donations can typically be found outside of the boxes. As a result, it is his opinion that this is probably an issue that needs to be addressed in the near future.
Dick Weller informed Commissioner Stock that City Council had passed an Ordinance allowing donation boxes to be located on every commercial lot.
Phil Lum stated that there is a new Ordinance which requires permits for donation boxes, but the problem that Public Works is having is that people are not pulling the permits. He stated that a discovery of donations located outside of the box should be reported to the Health Department.
Daniel Call suggested that a copy of the permit be attached to the side of the donation box.
Dick Weller stated that one of the issues is that these businesses are getting a fee every month for each donation box located on their property.
Phil Lum stated that since there is a current Ordinance the only available option is a suggestion by Planning and Zoning to Council that the ordinance be repealed and donation boxes be prohibited.
Dick Weller stated that his greatest concern is how these donation boxes impact the appearance of the City.
Item 5 Wright Tree Trimming Company
Dick Weller asked Mr. Lum if the City was receiving any type of dividends from allowing the Wright Tree Trimming Company (phonetic) to park their trucks at Bangert Park? Mr. Lum stated that as one of the contractors for AmerenUE they had obtained permission from the City to park at Bangert, but that is all that he is aware of.
Item 6 Collision Center Fence
Dick Weller advised Mr. Lum that there used to be a fence in back of the Collision Center by St. Ferdinand Park and now it is gone. Mr. Lum stated that based on his information a problem occurred with replacing the screening material. He noted that the City Ordinance does state that commercial property has to be screened from residential property with a 6 foot privacy fence however this business is under a Special Use and are permitted to utilize this particular type of fencing.
Dick Weller stated that there is also a truck sitting at the curb of the Collision Center that has been there for some time. Mr. Lum stated that if the truck moves it is not considered to be a sign. Mr. Weller stated that he has not seen it move.
Item 7 The Detail Shop
Paul Stock stated that it was his belief that the detail shop located behind U-Haul was supposed to take down their roof sign? Mr. Lum stated that they were supposed to take down the out-dated sign that used to say Florissant Lawn Mower. Mr. Stock stated that they actually have a new sign up that uses the old framework. Mr. Lum stated that they were not required to take down the framework, but he would check to see if they had obtained a sign permit for the new sign.
Jane Boyle asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Paul Stock made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Jim Hessel. All parties concur and the meeting is adjourned at 8:15 p.m.
