MINUTES
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
AUGUST 15, 2011
TABLE OF CONTENTS PAGE NO.
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
Announcements/Comments Page 2
Under New Business
3120 North Highway 67
Oil Change Plus Page 2-5
400 West Washington
Commercial Bank Page 5-8
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Study Report and Make Recommendations
to Amend the Zoning Code Regarding
Taverns, Night Clubs and Cocktail Lounges Page 8-9
Future Meetings Page 9
Child Daycare Centers Page 9-10
Commission Training Page 10
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
The Planning and Zoning Commission for the City of Florissant met at the Florissant City Hall Council Chambers on Monday, August 15, 2011 at 7:00 p.m., with Jim Ross presiding.
On roll call the following members were present: Jim Ross, Jane Boyle, Dick Weller, Paul Stock, Lee Baranowski and Jim Hessel. Also present was Julia Bennett, Court Reporter and Phil Lum, Building Commissioner.
A quorum being present the Chair declared the Planning and Zoning Commission was in session for the transaction of business.
ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMENTS
Jim Ross announced that Daniel Call had been excused from tonight's meeting.
Jim Ross stated that the next order of business would be approval of minutes for the July 18, 2011 meeting.
Lee Baranowski stated that the minutes should be amended to reflect his yes vote for Item 2.
Jim Ross made a motion to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by Jane Boyle. All parties concur and the motion carried.
NEW BUSINESS:
Item 1 3120 North Highway 67
PZ081511-1 Oil Change Plus
RECOMMENDED APPROVAL - Ward 9
Request Recommended Approval to
Amend Special Use Ordinance No.
5713 to Allow for U-Haul Rental
Vehicles in a B-5 Zoning District.
The Chair stated Item Number One on the Agenda, Oil Change Plus, located at 3120 North Highway 67; request recommended approval to amend Special Use Ordinance No. 5713 to allow for U-Haul rental vehicles in a B-5 Zoning District.
Adam Stone, the Field Manager for U-Haul appeared before the Commission and stated that U-Haul is attempting to promote sustainability in neighborhoods by providing convenient locations for its customers. As a result, Oil Change Plus and U-Haul have entered into an agreement to open a U-Haul dealership at this location consisting of no more than three parking spaces to host its trucks/trailers.
Oil Change Plus will also perform repairs of U-Haul's equipment located on this site.
Phil Lum stated that the owner of Oil Change Plus submitted a drawing directly to him noting that two rental vehicles can be stored in any of the first four spaces indicated on the drawing. The other striping changes depicted on the drawing are a result of changes in the parking lot, with the addition of two spaces located in the bottom right hand corner. Mr. Lum stated that one of the spaces represents
a new sign and van accessible parking space that is now being required by the State.
Jim Ross asked the Petitioner if he had seen Staff's Report? Mr. Stone stated that he had not.
Phil Lum informed Mr. Ross that the Report had been sent to the owner of Oil Change Plus.
Mr. Ross asked Mr. Lum for an explanation of the section of the report pertaining to landscaping? Mr. Lum
stated that staff had advised the owner of this property that their last annual check revealed a need for additional landscaping resulting from landscaping that was removed when the Highway Department widened the highway. The owner agreed to plant four Knock Out Rose bushes on the Halls Ferry side, which was approved administratively by Public Works.
Jim Ross stated that another item contained in the report was the need to change the handicapped sign to an accessible parking sign. Mr. Lum stated that he did not check the sign himself, but if it says handicapped it must be changed to read accessible.
Mr. Ross asked the Petitioner for the size of the trucks being stored on the lot? Mr. Stone stated that they would be 350(s) like the 15 to 17 foot moving trucks.
Paul Stock asked the Petitioner how many trucks would be located on the site? Mr. Stone stated that there would be no more than two vehicles at any given time. Mr. Stock asked if there would be a limit on the size of the vehicle? Mr. Stone stated that the largest truck that U-Haul carries is 26 feet, although he would be willing to work with this Commission to make a determination on the appropriate size for this location. He noted that 26 foot trucks had been stored previously at this location without incident.
Jim Hessel noted that there was another U-Haul facility located at the corner of New Florissant Road and Highway 67. He then questioned whether these would be considered two separate locations? Mr. Stone stated that New Florissant was a corporate location and Oil Change Plus would be an independent dealership, although all the locations work together. Mr. Hessel asked if special hours would be established for rentals? Mr. Stone stated that trucks would be available during the normal business hours of Oil Change Plus.
Mr. Hessel informed the Petitioner that the City's parking spaces are limited to 20 feet therefore a 26 foot truck would be too large. Mr. Stone stated that he would be willing to limit the trucks to 17 feet. Mr. Hessel asked if U-Haul had future plans to expand their business at this location? Mr. Stone stated that U-Haul had no such intentions.
Mr. Hessel asked the Petitioner where the U-Haul signage would be located? Mr. Stone stated that typically it would be a non-lit sign located inside the window of the building, with decals on the garage doors.
Jane Boyle noted that the drawing was not drawn to scale and therefore she questioned whether there would be adequate parking for the oil change business? Mr. Lum stated that the owner has endured many requests for revisions by Public Works and the initial drawing had been drawn to scale meeting the City's requirements.
Ms. Boyle stated that she was concerned with the possibility of more than two trucks being stored at this location. And since this is technically an application for a second business on this site, her concern is that somewhere down the line this does not become a U-Haul facility rather than an oil change business. Mr. Stone stated that U-Haul has several independent dealerships similar to this one and all of them adhere to the guidelines set forth by the City.
Dick Weller agreed that there should be a definitive number of trucks allowed on this site.
Lee Baranowski asked Mr. Lum if more than one wall sign was allowed on the same wall? Mr. Lum stated that there could be up to a certain square footage, i.e., 100 square feet. Mr. Baranowski requested that the proposed pylon sign be presented to the Commission prior to approval. Mr. Lum informed Mr. Baranowski that the pylon sign depicted on the drawing was an existing sign, and that the only signage proposed by the Petitioner was a window sign.
Mr. Stone stated that this would be a metal sign approximately 24 to 30 inches wide and 24 inches tall.
Mr. Baranowski asked if there would be any signage on the trucks? Mr. Stone stated that U-Haul would follow the City's regulations prohibiting window signage in trucks.
Phil Lum stated that Public Works does not deem anything to be a sign if it is located on the in-board side of the glass.
Paul Stock asked the Petitioner if any trailers would be located at this site? Mr. Stone stated that there could be trucks and/or trailers.
Jim Ross asked if there were any further questions or comments to the Petitioner? Being no further questions or comments, Jim Ross made a motion to recommend approval to amend Special Use Ordinance No. 5713 to allow for U-Haul rental vehicles for the property located at 3120 North Highway 67; Oil Change Plus, with the following stipulations: that U-Haul vehicles be limited to a maximum of 17 feet; that no more than two vehicles be permitted on the site at any given time; that all signage be reviewed by the Building Commissioner prior to the issuance of any permits, and that a new sign to include the word accessible be installed pursuant to the recommendation contained in Staff's Report. Seconded by Jim Hessel. On roll call the Commission voted: Ross yes, Stock yes, Boyle yes, Hessel yes, Weller yes and Baranowski yes. Motion carried.
Item 2 400 West Washington
PZ081511-2 Commercial Bank
CONTINUED - Ward 5
Request Recommended Approval to
Amend Special Use Ordinance No.
5974 to Allow for a 10' by 10'
Electronic Sign in an R-4 Zoning
District.
The Chair stated Item Number Two on the Agenda, Commercial Bank, located at 400 West Washington; request recommended approval to amend Special Use Ordinance No. 5974 to allow for a 10' by 10' electronic sign in an R-4 Zoning District.
Dennis Caldwell of Dale Signs appeared before the Commission and stated that the new sign would be exactly the same size as the previous one, with the only difference being an electronic message center containing the bank's information, time/temp located on the bottom section of the sign and public information. Mr. Caldwell noted that the existing sign is 10 feet wide and not 9'1". He also noted that the overall height of the sign is 10 foot from grade.
Jim Ross asked the Petitioner if time and temperature is the only thing displayed on the existing sign? Mr. Caldwell stated that that was correct. Mr. Ross asked for the brightness of the sign? Mr. Caldwell stated that the brightness would self-adjust from daylight to nighttime.
Phil Lum stated that the Building Code governs electronic signs and that he had a note in his hand dated July 26th from the City Attorney's Office, along with a rather lengthy document regarding changes in the regulations for digital signs. Mr. Lum stated that this document would be provided to the Commission.
In the proposal brightness is measured by a unit called mitts (phonetic), which is a measurement off the face of the actual electronic sign. Public Works will make a recommendation as to what the generally acceptable ranges for nighttime and daytime use should be.
Mr. Lum stated that anyone who has in the past received permission for an electronic sign will be subject to these regulations once they are adopted.
Mr. Caldwell stated that he had reviewed the proposal in Staff's Report.
Jim Ross asked the Petitioner if he felt comfortable proceeding at this point in time? Mr. Caldwell stated that he really did not see this being a problem since based on his understanding all the regulations pertained to was the brightness.
Mr. Lum stated that possibly 35 to 39 percent of the sign area will also be reduced in size.
Jim Ross asked if there would be an impact on scrolling signs? Mr. Lum stated that there would be scrolling. In fact, the recommendations are to have a single message, perhaps only in two colors and that the message remain visible for as long as 30 seconds and only go off and on instantaneously to change to a different message.
Jim Ross stated that he was not comfortable voting without knowing the impact it would have on this Petition.
Paul Stock concurred with the statement of Commissioner Ross.
Mr. Caldwell asked Mr. Lum if he had a time frame of when the Ordinance may take effect? Mr. Lum stated that after staff writes the memo it would be forwarded to Council to make the final determination. Mr. Lum stated that he did not believe that the Petition should be held up awaiting the final outcome since electronic signs are flexible enough that they can be programmed to fit the regulations.
Mr. Caldwell stated that he would prefer to talk to the bank prior to proceeding to determine what they would like him to do.
Jim Hessel, Jane Boyle and Lee Baranowski stated that they had no problem voting on this Petition, although the Petitioner should have the option of determining whether he wanted to proceed.
Dick Weller stated that if all electronic signs will be required to adhere to this new Ordinance then there was no reason why the Commission could not vote on this Petition.
Jim Ross suggested that the Petitioner talk to the Council person in Ward 5 for guidance on the matter.
Jane Boyle asked Mr. Lum if the agenda should be amended from an R-4 Zoning District to a B-4? Mr. Lum stated that this was a Special Use Permit and not a B-5.
Mr. Lum advised the Commission that he had attached the Ordinance regarding the size of the sign and although the correct size of the sign may be as the Petitioner stated, what is approved on paper under the Special Use Permit is the size contained in the report. So perhaps the sign company installed a sign that was 10 feet wide instead of 8'9" and it was not caught by the City. Mr. Lum stated that the sign measured without the skirt is approximately 8 1/2 feet.
Mr. Caldwell asked that he be allowed to discuss this matter with the bank prior to proceeding.
Jim Ross asked if there were any further questions or comments to the Petitioner? Being no further questions or comments, Jim Ross made a motion to continue the Petition until the October 3, 2011 meeting which would allow the Petitioner enough time to obtain further information on the proposed Ordinance. Seconded by Paul Stock. On roll call the Commission voted: Ross yes, Stock yes, Boyle yes, Hessel yes, Weller yes and Baranowski yes. Motion carried.
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
Item 3 Study Report and Make Recommendations to Amend the Zoning Code Regarding Taverns, Cocktail Lounges and Night Clubs.
Jim Ross asked Mr. Lum for the definition of a tavern? Mr. Lum stated that the definition is really only going to be an establishment which serves liquor. He stated that he would be willing to develop the appropriate definitions for each business, although the City Attorney had really down-played the importance of creating definitions which tend to box-in anything. Mr. Lum stated that the City Attorney suggested that all of these entities be placed under a Special Use Permit that can be reviewed for the health, safety and welfare concerns listed under Item Number 5, as well as other site specific concerns.
All Commissioners agreed that Taverns, Cocktail Lounges and Night clubs should be considered under a Special Use Permit.
Jane Boyle stated that she was really concerned about the boundaries in relation to residential property, and suggested that the Commission look at this very carefully. Mr. Lum stated that under a Special Use boundaries could be examined under health, safety and welfare concerns.
Jim Ross asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Jim Ross made a motion to recommend that the Zoning Code regarding taverns, cocktail lounges and night clubs be amended to require that a Special Use Permit be obtained prior to the issuance of a Business Permit. Seconded by Jim Hessel.
Dick Weller questioned how a bar would be classified? Mr. Lum stated that the term bar is not listed in the Zoning Code, although it could be included within his definition of a tavern.
Lee Baranowski questioned how restaurants would be classified? Mr. Lum stated that restaurants are defined in the Zoning Code as establishments that serve food and alcohol, are open on Sunday and do more than 50 percent of their business in food. All restaurants are required to obtain a Special Use Permit unless they are located in the Historic District.
On the motion the Commission voted: Ross yes, Stock yes, Boyle yes, Hessel yes, Weller yes and Baranowski yes. Motion carried.
Item 4 Future Meetings
The next Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting will be held on Tuesday, September 6, 2011.
The next Council representative for the meeting of August 22, 2011 is Daniel Call.
Item 5 Child Daycare Centers
Jim Ross asked Ms. Boyle if she had any comments regarding the work session she attended on this issue?
Jane Boyle stated that the suggestions were well received and committee members agreed that there is a need to increase the square footage for classrooms and playgrounds.
Ms. Boyle stated that Councilwoman McKay is going to take the discussions from this session, meet with the City Attorney and draft legislation that will be presented to Council.
Ms. Boyle stated that she felt very positive about the response that this Commission received and believes that the extra labor devoted to this project was well spent.
Item 6 Commission Training
Phil Lum stated that he had discussed this issue, as well as the issue concerning the Commission's desire to consult with the City Attorney on an as-needed basis, and his recommendation is that this Commission make a direct request for said services to the Mayor's Office.
Jim Ross stated that he had previously proposed to do just that, however he had been informed that this action was inappropriate and that the Commission would have to go through their City Representative. Mr. Lum agreed that that was the correct procedure.
Mr. Ross requested that Mr. Lum contact the Mayor's Office concerning the need for training and use of the City Attorney on an as-needed basis.
Jim Ross asked if there were any further questions or comments? Being no further questions or comments, Jim Ross made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Jim Hessel. All parties concur and the meeting is adjourned at 8:05 p.m.
