NOVEMBER 28, 2011
LANDMARKS AND HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
MINUTES
The Landmark and Historic District Commission (LHDC) of the City of Florissant met at the Florissant City Hall on Monday November 28, 2011 in the second floor cafeteria room at 6:30 p.m., with Gary Meyer acting as chair.
INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME
Gary Meyers acting as Chair welcomed all LHDC members and petitioner.
ROLL CALL
On roll call the following members were present: Gary Meyer, Edward Kiel, Kent Miller, and Gretchen Crank. Also in attendance were Dianne Lehmann, Recording Clerk, and Phil Lum, Building Commissioner and Debborrah Knop, Petitioner from 298 Rue St. Francois. A quorum being present, the Chair declared the Landmark and Historic District Commission (LHDC) was in session for the transaction of business.
Phil Lum asked if at this time we could dispense the Old Business and move to New Business as to accommodate our petitioner.
APPROVAL OF 10/24/2011 MINUTES
OLD BUSINESS
New Business
Item 1 Request for a COA for 298 Rue.St. Francois to replace windows throughout house with new energy efficient windows that are being special made.
Mr. Meyer read the request for a Certificate of Appropriateness (COA) from Debborrah Knop, the petitioner, located at 298 Rue St. Francois, for replacement windows at the above referenced address. Ms. Knop described the replacement windows she will be purchasing stating that they will be special ordered and made to look just like the existing windows. All the windows in the top have 6 paneled panes and the bottom will have 4 paneled panes, exactly as they are.
The reason she is asking for replacement of these windows is the wood around the windows has deteriorated to such a condition that they are no longer energy efficient. She current has storm windows and the wind can still be felt around the windows. She is having the new window made with low E glass to help with the sun. She explained that she will not be re-installing storm windows. They will be a double paned glass. Gretchen asked if the windows would be 6 over 1 and 4 over 1 just as they are today. Deb acknowledged that was a fact. Gary asked if wood was being replaced with vinyl and Deb said yes. She also said that wood was just too expensive and that she would not be replacing them at all if it was not for the lack of efficiency. Gretchen asked if they would have the arch over the top as they currently do. Deb stated that the windows were not curved just the wood surrounding the windows but that wood would be replaced just as it is. Deb also explained that no payment would be made to the contractor if the windows weren’t exactly as she specified.
Phil Lum said that he had concerns about the ordinance itself and asked Deb if she had a copy of it. Deb explained that the business next door, Sandy’s Interiors, had windows replaced with vinyl windows. Phil said he was concerned that LHDC had approved vinyl windows in the past but he could not find anything in the Secretary of Interior standards that supported vinyl windows. The ordinance says that the council will designate that the architectural features and exterior features shall not be altered without a COA; then it lists 10 things that are important on the building. Mr. Lum listed all 10 items and then gave everyone on the commission a copy of the 2 pages of window replacement requirements that are listed on the Secretary of Interior web sight. Mr. Lum also stated that he thought that the petitioner had taken all of these things in consideration while looking to replace these windows; the pattern of windows, configuration of the windows, type of wood, and other associated details. Other cities have objected to vinyl windows but in the past this commission has approved vinyl windows. Mr. Lum said he could not find any supportive information on the replacement of wood windows with vinyl on the historic web sight referencing national guidelines.
Gretchen asked what part of the LHDC guidelines window replacement fell into. Gary Meyer said after reviewing the current ordinance for a re-designated building it states that the wood windows in the building can not be replaced with vinyl without a COA. Phil Lum corrected Gary Meyer stating that the ordinance does not specifically say “replace with vinyl windows” but says changes to the exterior of the building. Gretchen asked Deb if she had considered replacing the windows with wood and Deb said she didn’t want them because she couldn’t upkeep wood windows on a 2 story building. Gary stated that wood windows of today weren’t exactly wood but a wood window with clad on the outside. Deb said this being said she has checked wood windows out but the cost is $500.00 to $1000.00 per window and that just makes it cost prohibitive. Deb reminded the commission that there are multiple buildings around her building that all have vinyl windows. Phil Lum responded that the commission’s only responsibility is to review re-designated properties, which this building falls in to. Gary asked if a COA was required and what steps need to be taken in order to give a COA to the petitioner. Phil Lum said that the commission should review if the 8 steps required by the Secretary of Interiors standard have been met. Kent Miller brought up facts that storm windows built of aluminum, wood or vinyl are allowed and should be used to help with energy efficient deficiencies as stated in the hand out, and this has already been done and not corrected the deficiencies.
Phil Lum said that the commission should be convinced that the replacement of these windows would be exactly as those that it are being replaced. The petitioner went into detail about the panes and they would be a raised pane window just like it is now. Phil Lum asked if the glass would be wavy like old glass. Deb responded no. Gary stated she wouldn’t even be able to get that in a wood window without special making and finding old glass. Phil asked about what type of building and the age of the building. Deb responded that it was a 2 story brick building built in
1868 or 1878. Phil asked if this change would compromise the look of a building that was built in the 1890’s with newer energy efficient windows. Deb said the contractor assured her that the windows would be exactly the same only vinyl. Phil said the windows were probably replacement windows anyway and Kent Miller said he remembered them being replaced before. Gary asked if COA would be required and Phil said yes because changes are being made to the architectural feature of the building. Gary asked if it could be done tonight and Phil said yes because a quorum was present. Kent Miller said given the fact that the windows are going to be exact replacements only vinyl he recommended approval of a COA.
Gretchen said she was concerned about future requests for aluminum windows. She asked if we should do something that would prevent this from setting precedence for future window replacement requests. Gary Meyer said he did not think we were setting precedence because anyone wishing to replace windows would have to come before the commission just as this petitioner has, and the commission would have to decide whether or not the guidelines had been met. Gary stated again the only reason the commission was looking at approval on this case was because the window replace was going to be exact other that that of material.
Phil Lum said he would like on the record, that we this project needed a COA and mistakes have been made in the past and many projects that needed COA didn’t get them and many petitioners sought a COA and didn’t need it.
Gary Meyer motioned that based on the facts that have been presented to the commission that a COA be granted for the property located at 298 Rue St. Francois for the replacement of wood windows with a energy efficient vinyl window. Kent Miller seconded the motion. All members voted to pass this motion and the COA was signed.
ANNOUNCEMENTS / COMMENT
Gary asked if there was any additional business that needed attention. Hearing none; a motion was made to adjourn the meeting by Gary Meyer, seconded by Kent Miller. Meeting was adjourned at 7:00 PM
Respectfully submitted:
Dianne Lehmann, Recording Clerk
