MAY 24, 2010
LANDMARKS AND HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
MINUTES
The Landmarks and Historic District Commission (LHDC) of the City of Florissant met at the 6:30 p.m. Monday, May 24, 2010 at Florissant City Hall 955 Rue St. Francois in the second floor conference room. Howard Nimmons presided and called the meeting to order at 6:30.
The following members were present: Joe Schulte, Kent Miller, Edward Keil, Curtis Gunn, Howard Nimmons and Rob Hoffman.
Representing the City of Florissant were Phil Lum, Building Commissioner and Dianne Lehmann, Recording Clerk.. Also in attendance were Jeremy Hoffee representing 745 Rue St. Francois and Ryan Reeder representing 733 Rue St. Francois. A quorum being present the chair of the LHDC declared the meeting was in session for the transaction of business.
INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME OF NEW MEMBER
Phil Lum introduced new member Rob Hoffman. He has served on the committee in the past.
OLD BUSINESS
Nothing to report
NEW BUSINESS
Item 1 745 Rue St. Francois
J. Oscar School Of Music
Request a variance for a sign.
Approved.
Howard Nimmons opened the floor to comments. Phil Lum referred to his staff report for all to review. Mr. Lum stated that upon acceptance of the permit applications for both of these sign permits he believed that they did not meet the qualifications for a sign in the historic district.
The ordinance article 2 historic district section 520.290 paragraph (a) states that:
“A variance procedure is provided for historic signs and is appropriate and necessary in the interest of the general welfare of the community.”
Special requirements for a sign in the Historic district are:
- Preserve the historic features of the Old Town area
- Encourage the use of Old Town area for the welfare and education and pleasure of the general public
- Provide an environment that would promote the restoration of the Old Town area
Mr. Lum stated in reviewing the sign permit it was in the best interest of Old Town to bring this before the commission for a variance. In his opinion the LHDC should make a determination that the sign design fits the character of the Old Town area.
Old Town Development Plan states that LHDC adopts the city council ordinance and on page 8 paragraph (a) the Old Town plan states that:
It controls the size and type and placement of new signs.
A variance procedure is in place to allowing increase size for genuine historic signs or well designed business symbols.
Joe Schulte stated that in the past a business logo served as a business symbol. It was discussed that this commission should decide if these signs meet that criteria. Rob Hoffman asked if the question here is not if the sign was inappropriate because that has already been determined by Phil Lum but should the commission grant a variance. It was agreed that a variance was needed for the petitioner to go forth with these signs.
Discussion was held regarding the proposed sign fitting the age of the buildings and other surrounding buildings. Joe Schulte motioned that the commission accept the sign as submitted, seconded by Curtis Gunn. Rob Hoffman requested further discussion before a vote be made expressing his view that neither sign met the requirements for a variance in his opinion. Phil Lum did state that his concerns were, the thickness of the sign was not that of a 60’s style sign, there was no border on the sign, and the font and design were a more contemporary look than that of other historic signs in the area and that other signs above canopies along St Francois have a historic look. Howard Nimmons sees a lot of diversity in the signs already along St. Francois so he does not oppose the script but he questions the pictures on the sign and is concerned about the sign lasting and the balance it had with the building. Rob Hoffman agreed with Howard and opposes the pictures and does not feel the proposed sign meets the variance requirements. Rob also asked if Jeremy could eliminate the pictures or change the font. Jeremy Hoffee, owner of J.Oscar School of Music, stated that the colors and script writing are his logo. He also stated that the pictures on the sign are those of local Florissant residents. Kent Miller reminded us about the variance granted for the Bank of America sign and stated that many businesses have been granted a variance due to the presence of a logo as long as all other criteria had been met. Joe Schulte again stated that he had a motion on the floor to accept the sign as submitted. Seconded by Curtis Gunn. A vote was taken; Howard Nimmons-no, Joe Schulte-yes, Kent Miller-yes, Edward Keil-yes, Curtis Gunn-yes, Rob Hoffman-no. Motion carries and approved as submitted.
Rob Hoffman questioned if the current sign variance had been granted and the sign had been approved as submitted. He was told by Phil Lum that no change could be made at this time according to Roberts Rules.
A request was made by Phil Lum that a reason be given for the variance. The reason for this variance:
“This sign represents the logo of J. Oscar School of Music and is a well designed business symbol.”
Item 2 733 Rue St. Francois
Golf Club Liquidators
Request a variance for a sign.
Approved.
A motion was made by Joe Schulte that the proposed sign be approved as submitted. A second was made by Kent Miller. Rob Hoffman questioned the design and symmetry and asked if it could be changed. Ryan Reeder, owner of Golf Club Liquidators, stated that this is the same logo he has on the door and on his web site. This is what he believes sets him apart from other Golf Liquidators.
Rob Hoffman quoted Section 120.050 saying that we are setting a precedent and would be bound to grant all other applications the same variance. He also stated that the font was his biggest concern. A motion was made by Rob Hoffman to vote, but a motion was already on the table.
The votes were as follows: Howard Nimmons-yes, Joe Schulte-yes, Kent Miller-yes, Edward Keil-yes, Curtis Gunn-yes, Rob Hoffman abstained. Motion carries, variance approved.
The reason for this variance:
“This sign represents the logo of Golf Club Liquidators and is a well designed business symbol.”
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Joe Schulte stated that he had a correction for the February 22, 2010 minutes but after further discussion no correction needed to be made. Kent Miller made a motion to approve the minutes seconded by Edward Keil. Minutes were approved unanimously.
MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS
1: #1 St. Ferdinand - Certificate of Appropriateness
Mr. Lum explained the contents of the packets mailed to commission members. He also explained that the letter mailed to the Shrine regarding the Certificate of Appropriateness had the attachment omitted, but had since been mailed. All enclosures had item numbers that corresponded with Mr. Lum’s staff report. #1 enclosure was a copy of Mr. Hoffman’s report on the current archeological dig. #2 was a copy of the pictures taken by Public Works staff showing that a construction fence needed to be erected on all four sides of the dig. #3 was information about a meeting between the Mayor and school officials. #4 was the response from the objective 3rd party. #5 minutes from the February 22nd meeting. #6 letter to Shrine stating that no work shall continue and a meeting of the State Archeologist shall occur. #7 Phil met with Joann Radetic and Judith Deel. Judith Deel did tell the Shrine that the Shrine was not practicing archeology and an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness should be made. They are the 3rd party. The state offered advice on how to get the students involved in archeology correctly. #8 Mr. Lum gave Bill Bray, representative from the Shrine, an application for the Certificate of Appropriateness in which he turned back in the next day. This application was forwarded to the State Archeologist. #9 letter sent to Shrine from Mr. Lum saying that he would continue to work with State Archeologist. The letter also stated that a plan must be in place before a dig can take place as well as a plan on how to treat the current dig site. #10 letter from the state archeologist saying they needed additional information. Mr. Lum stated that he would work with the Shrine to get the correct information and he may need an archeologist to complete this process. He is researching 2 grant applications at this time. The grant application is not eligible until 2011. Mr. Hoffman, an archeologist himself for 20 years, expressed his concern about the Shrine dig, noting that this is the most important historic site we have in our city and the errors that have occurred in allowing the current dig to take place are immeasurable. Mr. Lum stated that The City of Florissant and the LHDC should work with the Shrine to fix the damage that has already taken place. In order to do this properly the Shrine needs to propose a specific plan and needs to educate the city about their proposed plan. Mr. Lum along with Rob Hoffman noted that there are only 2 ways to treat the exposed dig at this particular time. They are: build a building over the site or back fill the site under the supervision of an archeologist. The question was raised on the expense of closing the dig and that the school, nor the Shrine, nor the city had funds available to hire an archeologist. Rob Hoffman stated that to do this correctly the archeologist would grid the site and profile the area. The school could supply the labor from students to back fill the hole once the archeologist’s work was completed. It was decided by all members that the LHDC would like to do what ever possible to expedite the closing of the current dig. Mr. Lum will send correspondence to the Shrine expressing the concerns of the LHDC and The City of Florissant asking them for their plan to resolve the open dig issue. Mr. Lum and Mr. Hoffman will both work trying to recruit archeologist to assist in obtaining the Certificate of Appropriateness as well as closing the current dig site correctly.
2. 2009 LHDC Annual Report
Two corrections were made to the LHDC Annual Report. They are corrections to the street signs on Dunn Rd. referencing Route 66 changing “Washington Ave. to Graham Rd” to “Riverview Drive to Lindbergh Blvd” on page 13. A change to the cover should be changing October 2009 to October 2008. A motion to approve the amended 2009 LHDC Annual Report was made by Joe Schulte seconded by Kent Miller. The amended 2009 LHDC Annual Report was approved unanimously.
ANNOUNCEMENTS/COMMENTS
Howard Nimmons suggested that a date and time be set for future LHDC meetings on a permanent bases. After some discussion it was decided that the regular LHDC Meeting will be held on the 4th Monday of each month at 6:30. The commission would like an advance notice of 2 weeks prior to any meeting.
Rob Hoffman, bringing up as new business, also wanted to express his concern about the lack of historic homes that have been recertified. Rob stated that is was about 1/3 of the 122 homes that used to be designated are no longer designated. Joe Schulte corrected that number saying that they have ½, or 50 of the 108 homes re-designated. Rob Hoffman said this was the job of LHDC to keep a register and communicate with new potential members wanting to participate and would like to further discuss this as new business at the next meeting. Rob Hoffman said he would like the lack of homes being redesignated to be added to the agenda for the next LHDC meeting. Phil Lum said he would mail everyone on the commission a current list of homes that are designated Landmark Homes for The City of Florissant.
Additional discussion regarding designation and redesignation of Landmark homes ensued. It was determined that we did not have to undesignate and re-certify all Landmark homes.
Joe Schulte said the newest ordinance says that it is permissible to have wood, aluminum, vinyl or steel on a historic house. Mr. Lum said they did allow vinyl windows at the Girardier house and he did question the appropriateness of these windows on a historic, national landmark registered that is re-designated. Rob Hoffman suggested that the commission revisit whether or not wood, aluminum, vinyl or steel is allowable on a historic house
A motion was made to adjourn the meeting by Joe Schulte seconded by Rob Hoffman. Motion passes meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.
Submitted by Dianne Lehmann
