FEBRUARY 22, 2010
LANDMARKS AND HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
MINUTES

The Landmarks and Historic District Commission of the City of Florissant met at the Florissant City Hall on Monday February 22, 2010 in the second floor conference room at 6:30 p.m., with Joe Schulte presiding.

On roll call the following members were present: Gary Meyer, Joe Schulte, Kent Miller, Edward Keil and Curtis Gunn. Howard Nimmons arrived at  7:45..Also in attendance were Cynthia Treiber, Recording Clerk and Philip Lum, Building  Commissioner of Florissant. A quorum being present, the Chair declared the Landmarks and Historic District Commission (LHDC) was in session for the transaction of business.

INTRODUCTION AND WELCOME OF NEW MEMBER

Mr. Schulte introduced the new Commission member, Curtis Gunn that was replacing Marion McGuinn. Mr. Schulte welcomed Mr. Gunn and stated that he purchased the famous historic house of Dr. Millman.

OLD BUSINESS

NEW BUSINESS

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

Mr. Schulte asked if there were any amendments to the October 5, 2009 minutes. Being no changes or amendments Mr. Miller made a motion to approve the minutes as written. Seconded by Mr. Meyer, all members concurred. October 5, 2009 minutes were approved as written.

MISCELANEOUS BUSINESS

Discussion of the Certified Local Government (CLG) forum that was attended by Mr. Nimmons and Mr. Schulte.

Mr. Miller asked if he missed something regarding this meeting, because generally he would get an invitation thru the mail from the City. Mr. Lum stated that he thought that the CLG committee would send something out directly to the Commission however, he thought he had mailed all the Commission members an invitation. Mr. Schulte stated that he gets his invitation by e-mail however; he thought in the past that the Building Commissioner would send them out by mail. Several of the members stated that they had received their invitation thru the mail from the City. Mr. Miller stated that he must have just missed his. Mr. Lum apologized to Mr. Miller that did not receive his invitation.

Mr. Schulte stated that he had some information to pass out from the CLG meeting. Mr. Schulte passed out the agenda and information regarding Hermann MO. Mr. Schulte stated that the meeting had tips on applying for grants and that he was following up on one for the replacement of the boiler at the Shrine.
Mr. Schulte stated that he contacted the people at St. Vincent’s orphanage to make the repairs. Mr. Schulte stated that there were grants available for the green world with money available for things such as insulation of buildings. Mr. Schulte stated that he was also working on a grant to hopefully insulate the ceiling of the Shrine. Mr. Schulte stated that per the Federal Law that there were no grants or tax breaks available for occupied, single family homes however, there were State Grants available.

Mr. Schulte stated that he had done a tally sheet of who attended the CLG Meeting and that there were forty-eight Cities reregistered with sixty one people signed up and only forty-two people showed up. Mr. Schulte stated that they were the only ones attending from St. Louis County. Mr. Schulte stated that people from Joplin, U-City, Booneville, Jefferson City, Hermann and Grandview were in attendance. Mr. Lum stated that this meeting was not a mandatory meeting and only a suggested meeting. Mr. Lum stated that the Commission members were required to attend either one training session or some type of meeting such as this Forum per year. Further discussion was held regarding different meetings with Mr. Miller stating that from his experience in the past cities would send their staff members to these meetings and very few Commission members would attend. Mr. Miller stated that the City of Florissant usually had a very good representation at the CLG Forum.

Review of LHDC Colors.

Mr. Schulte stated that the next item on the agenda was the LHDC colors. Mr. Lum stated that the current list of colors published in the Old Town Development folder were very old photo copies from Brod Dugan color chips that dated back to 2001. Mr. Schulte stated that he thought the color chips dated back to 1974.Mr. Lum stated that Broad Dugan was bought out by Sherman Williams, therefore he took the formulas to Sherman Williams and color samples reproduced. Mr. Lum stated that the color samples have been put into four different folders that would be available to the Commission members, staff or residents as needed. Further discussion was held regarding the color samples with Mr. Schulte stating that sometimes the colors were a judgment call and as long as the resident could get the formula they could take that anywhere and get the paint. The pantone matching system formulae is attached to each 8x10 color sample.

Review of LHDC Requirements, Certified Local Government requirements and LHDC City code requirements.

Mr. Lum stated that when he was informed there was a new LHDC Commission member he researched the code book in its entirety regarding the procedures and requirements for the LHDC Commission and reduced this information into one six page packet. Mr. Lum stated that in addition he researched the Certified Local Government requirements and included this information on the first page of the packet.

Mr. Lum stated that the participant requirements for a Certified Local Government were as follows:
a) Adopt a local ordinance, which the City has done.
b) Establish a five member Commission, which this has been done.
c) Establish a system for ongoing survey and inventory of cultural resources, which is in the City code.
d) Provide Public participation by outreach and educational activities, which he did not know of any that had occurred since he had been there.
e) Perform responsibilities delegated to the State Historic Preservation Office, which as far as he knew nothing had been delegated as of yet.

Mr. Lum stated that the minimum requirements that had to be met in order for the State to continue the City’s status as a Local Government were as follow:
f)  Meetings at a minimum of four per year, sending the minutes to the State Historic Preservation office. Mr. Lum stated that last year there were only two meetings.
g) Submit an annual report. Mr. Lum stated that to date there had not been one submitted.

Mr. Lum stated that when Howard Nimmons and Joe Schulte went to the forum there were some sample reports and that some of the Communities did the reports and some of them did not however, the report was a requirement. Mr. Schulte stated that the Commission had never seen the reports in the past and that John Morgan would do them and send them off to the State. Mr. Lum stated that he would do what ever was asked of him however, this was their Commission and he would want them to approve the report. Mr. Lum stated that he felt the Route 66 item was one of the most historic things that had occurred and asked the Commission members if this was a discussion or would they want this information to be a part of the report?

Mr. Schulte stated that he had information regarding Route 66. Mr. Schulte stated that no one except the old timers in the City knew that Dunn Rd. was old Route 66 and according to the book “Florissant Missouri” by Rosemary Davison, on page 160 it stated that in 1961 construction of highway 270 covered the bypass of Route 66. Mr. Schulte stated that this information was also in another book that included information about the Meyer House that was on page 56 of “The Missouri US 66 Tour Book” by C.H. (Skip) Curtis. Mr. Schulte stated that he was on the Board of Directors of the Route 66 association of Missouri and passed out information regarding Route 66. Mr. Schulte stated that the original route started in 1926 and ran from Chicago to Los Angeles which was 2,499 miles. Mr. Schulte stated that the original route thru St. Louis was across the McKinley bridge and later across the Chain Of Rocks Bridge and in 1936 the bypass was down Dunn Road to Lindbergh onto Kirkwood. Mr. Schulte stated that the State of Missouri had declared Dunn Road a Historic byway and was working on it be declared a Federal designation. Mr. Schulte asked the Commission members their thoughts on designating Dunn Road a Local Landmark? Further discussion was held regarding Route 66 with the Commission members concurring that this information should be included on the annual report and that procedures to designate Dunn Road a local Landmark be researched. Mr. Schulte asked Mr. Lum if he could research this with the City Attorney. Further discussion was held regarding the research process with the decision to put the Route 66 item on the next LHDC agenda.
 
Mr. Lum stated that he wanted to back track regarding the minimum requirements and that per the City of Florissant Code book there had to be regularly scheduled meetings with a minimum of four a year. Further discussion was held regarding the required meetings with the Commission members concurring that they would meet at least four times with the meeting day being the second Monday of the month at 6:30 pm.

Mr. Lum asked if the Commission members would like him to draft an annual report and present it to them for their approval with the inclusion of Route 66, all members concurred.

Mr. Lum continued the discussion on the minimum requirements for a Certified Local Government stating that every three years there would be an evaluation from the State. Mr. Lum stated that it was recommended to encourage each Commission member to attend one training or conference a year and that the State was required to make available and provide appropriate training to the Commission members.
Further discussion was held regarding the location of different meetings with Mr. Lum stating that there should be meetings available closer to home and he would make sure that any information he received he would forward on to the Commission members. Mr. Lum stated that the final one was that the Mayor and Commission review all nominations to the National Register, in which that is being done.

Mr. Lum stated that the six page packet was the entire ordinance which had been reduced to be used as a quick reference. Mr. Lum stated that with a new Commission member and himself being relatively new he felt that this document could possibly be useful as a tool. Mr. Miller stated, in appreciation, that other Commissions did not have a Building Commissioner or someone to do their minutes and had to do everything themselves.

 

Discussion and review of Archeological digs within the City’s Historic District.

Mr. Schulte stated the last item on the agenda was Archeological digs within the City’s Historic District. Mr. Lum stated that to his surprise he had discovered that it is the LHDC Commission’s responsibility to approve a dig on a Landmark property. Mr. Lum stated that the Shrine was one of the properties re-designated as a landmark therefore, would require approval from The LHDC Commission. Mr. Lum stated that he had prepared a one page report regarding Archeology digs, however had one correction. Where it stated section 405.460 H & E, E should be corrected to be section 405.463 of the code. Mr. Lum stated that per the City code, designated Landmarks like the Shrine, the petitioner should have appeared before the LHDC Commission for a hearing seeking a Certificate of Appropriateness permit prior to any construction, alteration or removal involving earth disturbing activities that affect the designated archeological resources.

Mr. Schulte stated that he was not sure who it was, however, there was a grant issued for the dig at the Spanish Land Grant. Mr. Schulte stated that a group of high school kids from MCCluer High came to the Shrine under the supervision of teachers and conducted a dig. Mr. Schulte stated that when the first group found out about the dig at the Shrine they began writing letters and criticizing the dig. Further discussion was held regarding both digs with the conclusion being that both responsible parties of the digs should have made application for a Certificate of a Appropriateness. Mr. Lum stated that there should have been an application with plans submitted and reviewed by the Commission with a Certificate of Appropriateness issued prior to the digs.

Mr. Lum stated that since none of them were Archeologists and would not have the expertise to know if the digs were properly being conducted or not. Mr. Lum stated that a meeting was held with the Ferguson - Florissant Superintendent of the Schools, the entire Science Department including the teachers involved, the local Archeologist who complained about the dig, a qualified representative of Archeologist’s credentials from Washington University and Bill Bray, the President of Friends of St. Ferdinand Shrine Inc. to discuss the dig at the Shrine. Mr. Lum stated that he was not sure who would apply for a Certificate Appropriateness permit however, he would check with the City Attorney, but assumed that the owner of the property or a representative would the responsible  person and in this case would have been someone representing  Friends of St. Ferdinand Inc.

Mr. Kiel asked if the artifacts that had been discovered had been designated to whom they belong.  Mr. Lum stated that would have been a part of their presentation however, Mr. Bray has stated that all artifacts that were removed from this dig were in the Shrine’s possession.
Further discussion was held regarding what would need to be done from this point. Mr. Lum stated that currently the site had been left open and there were concerns as to whether it was eroding and/or loss of Historical artifacts. Mr. Lum stated that the school wanted to continue to leave the site open, covered with tarps for further digs. However, the City has obtained permission to request the State to recommend a qualified third party who would not be swayed either way to review the site and make suggestions, Mr. Bray has agreed to this. Further discussion was held regarding the Commissions stance on future digs. It was determined that the Commission only had authority over Landmark properties in which they would require them to go thru the process to obtain a Certificate of Appropriateness permit. Mr. Lum stated that the City would most likely be advised and educated from the third party as what to do next; however any future construction would require them to come before the LHDC Commission.

Mr. Kiel asked how this procedure would apply to a residential home. Mr. Lum stated that it would depend on what was found and when it was brought before the Commission. However according to the Ordinance if it is known that it is an Archaeological resource and there was going to be earth disturbing they should come before the Commission.

ANNOUNCEMENTS / COMMENTS

Mr. Schulte asked if anyone had any further business. Being none Mr. Schulte stated that he would entertain a motion to adjourn. Mr. Miller made a motion to adjourn. Seconded by Mr. Meyer, all members concurred, meeting was adjourned.

 

Respectfully submitted:

Cynthia A. Treiber,
Recording Clerk